Read the following essay:
On Bullshit by Princeton professor Harry Frankfurt.
Here is a 5 minute video that introduces you to the topic and to Harry Frankfurt as well.
Video with Professor Frankfurt
Tell me what his argument is? Which, according to Frankfurt is worse, lies or bs? Explain how he establishes that opinion. What do you think?
When I logged on to read this weeks blog, I was taken aback at what the topic was. I was very confused and a little embarrassed. When I hear the word "bullshit", I typically associate it with someone calling me out on a lie. It's also a word that's not accepted in school, so while I was shocked, I was also very intrigued. Harry Frankfurt seemed to me at first a very outspoken and rash kind of guy. However, as I watched the video and then read the essay, I began to clearly understand what he meant. Before I even read the essay or watched the video, I had the same vague meaning of bullshit, just as Frankfurt said, "the expression bullshit is often employed quite loosely — simply as a generic term of abuse, with no very specific literal meaning". As I read more of his essay, I realized that I had no reason to be ashamed of the word bullshit, because it's simply just a word. Many other words such as "balderdash”, “claptrap”, “hokum”, “drivel”, “buncombe”, “imposture”, and “quackery” have generally the same meaning, all of which also have mis conception meanings. Bullshit isn't the same as lying, as I first perceived it to be. Lying is the act of knowing the truth, but saying the opposite or something false about it. Lying is an act of deception. Bullshit could almost be defined as ignorance. It's not caring about finding out what the truth is, but instead whatever the one speaking bullshit wants it to be. One of the examples Frankfurt gave in the video was that of the climate change. He says that it is a real thing, and it's scientifically proven. However, there is still people in the world who will deny its very impact on the world. The truth is obvious, yet some will deny it because they fail to seek the truth. Frankfurt says this is not only dangerous, but it also drains reality of its inspirational juices. He believes that bs is much worse than lying, because the truth is not being sought out. The truth, as he said, is something we all should be searching for in all aspects of our lives. The truth is everywhere, it's just a matter of finding it.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that he thought bullshit is worse than lying because he used the example of a father telling his son, "One of the first things he taught me was, 'Never tell a lie when you can bullshit your way through.'" Why would he use an example that disagrees with him? The only reason would be to help build his argument, but he didn't. He moved on very quickly after this statement to a new idea of understanding bullshit.
DeleteAbby, I really enjoyed reading your blog! Your intro made me smile and you covered all of the topics nicely. Great job!👍🏻
DeleteI agree with Morgan stating that he didn't think bullshit was worse, but I could see how you saw that in his writing. You highlighted the points that he made about it very well.
DeleteAbby, I felt the same way at the beginning of this blog assignment. "Taken aback" is a good way to describe how I first felt and I can see you felt the same. I agree that he thinks bullshit is worse because in the video, he says he wished he could see the world without the bullshit people put into it. He might say bullshit is easier to get away with, but that doesn't mean he agrees that it is the better option.
DeleteHarry Frankfurt argued the true structure of the concept of bullshit in his essay On Bullshit. Frankfurt defined bs as, "It is just this lack of connection to a concern with truth — this indifference to how things really are — that I regard as of the essence of bullshit." Bs is vague, lacks content, and is merely a misrepresentation. The bullshitter doesn't care about the facts, but is more concerned about other's opinions. Bs doesn't have an actual purpose, and just dances around the facts. Frankfurt made his point very clear that lying and bs have similar qualities, but are in fact not the same. A lie is defined as an intentionally false statement. Therefore, the lier must know what is true and what is false, or else lying would be impossible. Bullshitting is not on the side of falsehood or truth. It is unaware or isn't concerned about the facts. Bs isn't falsehood, but is the art fakery. With bullshit, one can have more freedom and creativity than a lier. A lier can only stay with the facts of what is true or false, but since bs isn't on either side, the bullshitter can have more freedom in manipulating the listeners. According to Frankfurt, he believes that bullshit is worse than than lying. He thinks that bs is simply laziness. Most bullshitters are normally thrown into situations where they are required to talk about topics they have little information on. This means that the speaker's ultimate goal is to fool the listeners into thinking the speaker actually knows what he's talking about. A lier at least has the facts and knows the difference between what is true and false. Bullshitters dance their ways through conversations to misrepresent their true knowledge of the the subject. Undoubtedly, it is impossible to avoid bullshit when one is talking about something they don't know. I definitely agree with Harry Frankfurt's opinion on bs. Bullshit is a way to manipulate others into thinking one is more knowledgeable than they really are. I do agree that bs is laziness, but in my opinion, bullshit comes down to one being a straight cowered and not owning up to his/ her true intellect.
ReplyDeleteWhen I read this, I kind of just felt like I was rereading the essay. I don't hear much or any of your voice throughout the writing, which I also remember telling you on your paper for tomorrow. I understand you want to be correct and sometimes your opinion may not be that, but I think it's better to be "wrong" and stand by it than to be "right" and have no person connection to what you said. That's kind of what bullshit is. You're trying to show people that you can alaways be right, but I think you're better than that. Please start letting your voice into your writings.
DeleteI think you did a great job with this blog! I like how you stick to the facts and then give your opinion at the end. I would have to disagree with Morgan about not hearing your voice! Your voice is sticking to the facts and you do a great job! Don't let her change YOUR voice into HER voice! Just because your OPINION is not hers doesn't mean that it is wrong. I also disagree with the fact that Morgan thinks you are trying to show people you can ALWAYS be right. Yes you are giving your opinion and trying to convince people to side with you but that is called an argument and it isn't a bad thing to strongly believe in something. You did a great job!
DeleteI loved the word choice you used in this blog to highlight your personal argument! You chose the right examples to prove your own argument and point!
DeleteMarcy, I really like how you explained that politicians dance around topics to please their audience, while lairs know the truth and have facts but lie. That is somewhat a good summary of what Frankfurt was trying to explain. Now I'm just saying this, but if you ever start creating a huge paragraph, it is very helpful to the reader if you could split it up into smaller ones, for understandability of course. Other than that you did a great job.
DeleteMarcy, Nichole didn't read your paper and doesn't know you as well as I do. I know how much you can do and say, which is why I expect more from you than she does.
DeleteHarry's argument is that lies and bullshit are not the same thing. He claims that bullshit is better because it is not necessarily not telling the truth, or even distorting it, instead it uses facts to deceive the person's perception of the other person. Bullshitting is more like only saying things, true or false, to make yourself sound better. He builds this argument by explaining the common uses, dictionary definitions, and his opinion of both bullshiters and liars, along with another word close to the two, humbug. Adding the third word was confusing for a bit, but gave him something to refence back and compare the other words to. I agree with Harry because bullshit is better than straight lies, but the both are pretty bad because they are meant to deceive people. It's the lesser of two evils.
ReplyDeleteThe term bullshit is used in everyday life, the meaning is often seen as deceptive or misleading. Often this word is compared to lying, however Henry Frankfurt argues in his essay "On Bullshit" that lying is worse than bullshit. Lying is simply telling false facts to another person while the liar knows the truth. The liar wishes to lead the person in the wrong and is flustered when called out on their lie or found out. Bullshit on the other hand is ignorance of reality, stating that the person saying the bs does not know the true facts or knowledge of the certain subject or object that he or she is talking about but is creatively using the topic to create bullshit that can fool at least one person. Frankfurt expands and explains his opinion on bullshit throughout his essay and in the video by comparing the word bullshit to other pieces of writing and words such as "humbug" and "quackery." He also compares to the scientifically proven fact of global warming and climate change and that some politics care enough to say that such a fact is only "part of religion" while they know little of the science that has proven such theories of global warming.
ReplyDeleteI can agree with Frankfurt's ideas on how bullshit is created and how lying is worse than bullshit because lying is knowing the reality of the world but giving false realities to other people while bullshit is having ignorance and not knowing truly what he or she is speaking about.
In Frankfurt's essay, his argument is to describe to us the difference between actual bs and lies. I think he believes bs is worse. He uses multiple examples, such as the beginning with humbug, that are close to bs but aren't quite the same. He explains bs as almost an art form. For example, the sentence " There is surely in his work, as in the work of the slovenly craftsman, some kind of laxity which resists or eludes the demands of a disinterested and austere," intricately describes the terribleness of the bs-er, making him more passionate about why he hates bs. I think lies and be worse than bs or vice versa in different viewpoints. Bs takes a little more consideration into deceiving the audience. This could be harder to detect, which scares me. A lie is straight up a false statement. Being caught in a lie is easier than catching true bs. Why doesn't the world realize that it's easier to be nicely honest, everyone can get along.
ReplyDeleteI agree that they are harder to detect today. I wasn't quite sure which one that you personally thought was worse, just that you see the potential dangers of both.
DeleteI like that you back up why you think Harry dislikes bs more than lies! You made a good point when you said lies are not as hard to catch as true bs.
DeleteI believe the most important aspect of your blog was that you made claims and were able to do so successfully with the supports who had to back it up! Short, descriptive, personalized, and supported. Good job!
DeleteHarry Frankfurt's essay "On Bullshit" was probably one of the greatest analyses of lies and deception I've read. He states the difference between lying and bullshit, with lying seemingly being the more dangerous of the two. He says, with dictionary backup, that bullshit is just short of lying, used to be more deceitful. People who use bullshit in their statements are simply stating warped and obviously fictional statements in an attempt to make themselves seem more intelligent. When we see these two things around us, we see people formulating bullshit statistics in their head to prove an opinionated point, or flat out lying about things that have happened and denying their association with these things. We see them both in the presidential debates. Frankfurt uses various synonymous terms with bullshit such as "claptrap" and "humbug," which both involve twisted words that can't quite be classified as lies. Society teaches us that lying and bullshit are both evil. However, bullshit can be way more dangerous Bullshit is seemingly less harmful, but its usage makes it much worse than lying. Frankfurt makes the statement: "Never tell a lie when you can bullshit your way through." In reality, bullshit and lying are different because bullshit is seemingly just a more acceptable way of lying. Its because of this that I believe Frankfurt's supposed standpoint ton bullshit is wrong. It's more deceitful and uses people to make someone look like they're correct. Frankfurt fails to acknowledge the fact that bullshit a more believable form of lying. Referring back to the election, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton are where they are full the sole reason they bullshit themselves there. Neither of them used straight lying because it would've ruined their campaigns. What they did was make up seemingly believable facts in order to make themselves look good and the other candidates look awful. Bullshit is the greater of the two evils in this situation. Religious organizations and hate groups use bullshit constantly in their teachings. The Westboro Baptist Church and even the Catholic Church have never flat out lied to anyone, but they bullshit them right to their face so it would seem like they knew everything. Their bullshit promotes hate and discrimination against people who think differently then them, not the lies that they would try to spread. It's bullshit because they can the considered lies because they can't be disproven. Bullshit has gotten us to where we are as a society. For these reasons, I believe Frankfurt should consider changing his standpoint on which one is more dangerous to utilize against a gullible society such as ours.
ReplyDeleteIn the essay written by Harry Frankfurt he tells the audience what bullshit is and what it isn't. He talks about the different ways words are used and how using them one way can make perfect sense but when using the same word in different context turns the word into bull. Harry claims that bullshit and lies are different but lies are much worse. When people lie they are completely disregarding what they have done, what they have heard, or what they have seen. When people are bullshit something they are don't care what they are doing and they have no trouble admitting what they are doing is in a careless manner. In my opinion bullshit and lies are very similar because when people lie they tell you things that don't make sense and that never happened and everything coming out of their mouth is bullshit and nonsense.
ReplyDeleteNichole, I liked how your blog was short and right to the point. Sometimes that's a better approach, but I would like to see how you view the piece more than in just one sentence. Overall, well stated!
DeleteNichole I really like your writing technique. You got people here who are writing pages worth of summaries, but why use more words than you need to get your point across? Keep this in mind: it's not about how much you talk, it's about what you talk about that truly counts. Keeping firm on the prompt seems very appropriate. Keep up the good work!
DeleteI definitely agree with what Emily said! I really liked your approach, and you did an overall great job!
DeleteThrough reading and listening to Harry Frankfurt's outlook on the truth to bullshit, it is quite clear, but can be read into conspicuously. Those who read his piece of writing may view his argument in various ways, and feel a different essence of the topic. I was honestly taken back by this topic because for one, the topic isn't taken lightly in such environments such as a school setting, and for two, bullshit is what our society is full of. Mainly politics in the 2016 era is why bullshit is surfacing ever more so. In Frankfurt's video, it featured the bombastic Donald Trump stating, "Our country is in big trouble, we don't win anymore." The amounts of bullshit in that sentence is unbelievable, his inability to use diction in an effective way to complete his stated argument. Frankfurt couldn't have used a better example to prove his point of bullshit than Trump. His inability to convey a topic in a detailed, yet understandable way. It displayed Frankfurt's argument stating how Trump was overly vague in his statement, whether he was caught in a political lie, however, I strongly believe it was straight up bullshit. Frankfurt states that bullshit undermines the respect of the truth, and used to have the potential to interest the audience. Whether the interest comes from agreement, or disagreement, it's hidden behind the curtain of crap. They way it's portrayed is creative, yet it conceals the truth to manipulate the listeners. As for liars, "they contempt to conceal the truth by substituting something for the truth that isn't the truth." That is the clear way Frankfurt displays his belief that bullshit is worse than lying, and I agree with him. The notion of lying can be picked apart, rather bullshit is offensive to the truth. A world without b.s. would be very interesting as stated, however, can we leave behind the deceptive misrepresentation known as bullshit?
ReplyDeleteBullshitting: To talk nonsense to someone, typically to be misleading or deceptive.
ReplyDeleteHarry Frankfurt's argument is that we have no clear meaning of the word bullshit. He explains the word bullshit, and how it differs from how people currently perceive the word. According to Frankfurt, lying is worse than bullshit because if bullshitting was on a line, it would be before lying. He lays down the foundation of his argument by explaining the difference between BSing and lying. Then Frankfurt explains how BSing is neither telling the truth or telling a lie, but rather the speaker is indifferent about either and is looking solely for self interest. While a person lying knows a truth but is deliberately deceiving his listener.
I personally think Bullshitting is worse than lying because it is so much easier to get away with.
Take these as examples:
Lie: America is the best country in the world because everyone here is completely happy and the American Dream has never been better.
Bullshit: America is number one because we're America. Red, white, and blue all day everyday.
The lie is very easy to refute. Simply stating the problems America has compared to other nations or something along those lines would suffice. The latter? Well that's a little more complicated because as you can see: America is number one. Yea we may have bad politicians and an inefficient education system. But at the end of the day, we are still number one because we are the U.S. of A. It may not be true, but it is terribly hard to counteract, since America is number one and we are America.